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Post by wheeker on Feb 28, 2014 9:53:25 GMT
Just wondering if there are any spare power connections in a xl100? I am attempting to install a TBS 6981 DVB-S2 Pci-e card using a pci to pci-e convertor, as per IT Troll's tutorial. It seems to be working, but I get no signal on a few channels & it has occurred to me that I might need to connect one of the additional molex power connectors that came with the card, shown at the top left below:  . If there's none spare & as I have all three hard drive SATA Power connectors used, perhaps I could find an inline SATA power-> molex cable? Something like this (can't seem to find what I need!):  Or would this be getting too much for the XL100 PSU? |
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Post by IT Troll on Feb 28, 2014 18:53:08 GMT
I would be surprised if a tuner card needed more power, but then I guess they put the connector there for a reason.
I am not sure about the Xl100, but the X201 only has the three SATA power connectors and then the motherboard connector for the optical drive.
So you will need a combination of a SATA power splitter and a SATA to molex power convertor.
I would be tempted to rig something up temporarily, perhaps taking a drive out of action, to see if the missing channels are really a power issue. |
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Post by Oliver on Feb 28, 2014 20:10:39 GMT
Just to confirm, have you tested the signal strength coming from the dish? If your dish is slightly out of line this would be the issue, difference channels need different signal strengths. I'm about to move and just installed a new Sat Dish today, I always use a Zone 2 larger dish (Im in a Zone 1 area), it gets a stronger signal which elimates rain fade  |
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Post by wheeker on Mar 11, 2014 12:31:07 GMT
Thanks for the advice guys- just to update that I'm not much further on. I got a cable like this Power SATA 15pin Male to 4pin Molex female + S-ATA 15pin female cable 16cm IDE & manged to hook-up one of the molex connectors on the TBS supplied power cable. Bingo- for the first time I got a signal on the previous "No Signal" channels ...... for a while.... then the "No signal" message came back..... then I tried a restart & then no channels worked  . Even more confusingly, I then discovered that all channels work fine in other software (DVB Dream & TBS Viewer), that channels could be recorded fine but reported "No Signal" in Live TV & that when in "Edit Channels" the "show preview" displayed all channels fine!  I was convinced that I must have a corrupt MC TV Set-up, so I tried a MCERecoveryTask, which reported a "Last Run Report" error of "0x80040154" in Task Scheduler. So then I tried the Hack7mc method to clear the Guide & Tuner Set Up. Then I tried turning WMC off & on again under Windows Features. None of these attempts have produced solid TV.  My last thought is to go back to the power issue- perhaps all 3 of the molex connectors on the TBS power cable need to be connected? Perhaps the pci to pci-e convertor is not passing through enough power? But don't really want to buy/connect up another 2 of the cables I bought, maybe just use one of these instead of the TBS power cable? Maybe the card itself is faulty? Hmmmm..... However, needless to say the WAF is now through the floor, so I may have to just admit defeat & go back to my PCI DVB- S card.....  |
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Post by IT Troll on Mar 11, 2014 21:57:32 GMT
Even more confusingly, I then discovered that all channels work fine in other software (DVB Dream & TBS Viewer), that channels could be recorded fine but reported "No Signal" in Live TV & that when in "Edit Channels" the "show preview" displayed all channels fine! That sounds a lot like the tuner source/priority issue I see on my setup which has a mixture of DVB-T and DVB-T2 tuners. Media Center tries to use an SD-only tuner to receive an HD channel resulting in a "No Signal" error. More info in my guide: www.vgx-xl.com/pci-express-tuner-card-guide
Did you check in Tasks > TV > Guide > Edit Channels > {pick a channel} > Edit Sources that the channel was correctly associated with the right tuner?
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Post by wheeker on Mar 12, 2014 11:58:35 GMT
Thanks for the response IT Troll. I know where you're coming from, but all I have installed are the TBS 6981 Dual DVB-S2 and the original Avermedia A16C DVB-T cards i.e. no DVB-S card. I also checked the "Edit Sources" for each "No Signal" channel & all that was listed was the two TBS sources. I should also say that the above behaviour was very inconsistent, sometimes it worked, other times not..... Unfortunately I'm away this weekend & leaving the wife & kids at home (yay!) & I can't leave them with no/flaky TV, so had to uninstall the TBS 6981 & re-install the PCTV DualSat Pro 4000i last night. Glad to say all went without a hitch & everything is back as it was (even upgraded MyChannelLogos to XL- nice!), just no BBC HD (DVB-S2) channels anymore.  TBH, I'm not sure if I can be bothered trying again with the TBS 6981. The only conclusion I can come to is either I had some weird hardware/driver conflict or that the Startech PCI->PCI-e adapter does not pass through enough power for a DVB-S2 card such as the TBS 6981. Perhaps it is fine with a DVB-T2 card such as yours, but the DVB-S2 requires more power? I may post this in one of the Freesat/TV Tuner threads just to flag it or if you think it is appropriate you could note it in your guide. Having said all that I'm now tempted to get a USB DVB-S2 tuner to get the elusive BBC HD (DVB-S2) channels!  |
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Post by IT Troll on Mar 12, 2014 15:49:29 GMT
I don't think it is a power issue, if it was it would have been fixed by your extra power connection.
I think it is a compatibility issue with Media Center. It does seem quite a common issue with DVD-S2 that all appears OK except you get a "No Signal" error in Live TV. Often I have read posts from people who routinely have to select a channel, move off it and then select it again. Almost as if it is taking too long to 'tune in' and Media Center is timing out. They also report that all works OK with third party software, which rules out it being a hardware issue.
As an alternative solution for HD, how about swapping the Avermedia card for a DVB-T2 card (using your Startech adapter)? I fear that you may hit the same issue with a USB DVB-S2 tuner. A dual DVB-T2 card would allow you to record two HD channels leaving your DVB-S card for everything else. |
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Post by wheeker on Mar 12, 2014 16:33:02 GMT
Thanks IT Troll. The only reason I thought it might be a power issue is that when I connected 1 of the 3 molex connectors I got a picture on the affected channels for the 1st time. As there are another 2 molex connectors I thought that perhaps these also need connected to get up to "full power". Though really I would have thought you would only need these when powering Diseq motors etc. Just groping in the dark really. The DVB-S2<->WMC compatibility issue sounds more likely indeed. I didn't realise there was an issue.  I should have pointed out that I'm actually in Dublin, Ireland, so I can get Freesat but not Freeview, so DVB-T2 isn't going to do it for me.  Anyhow, thanks for all your help. Will let you know if I ever do take the plunge with the USB DVB-S2. |
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Post by IT Troll on Mar 12, 2014 16:46:29 GMT
If you Google "DVB-S2 Media Center No Signal" you will see you get a lot of hits. A bit of research might turn up something. I've never had satellite though and so I haven't really gone into this issue in depth.
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Post by Oliver on Mar 12, 2014 17:17:59 GMT
Hi, I have FreeSat HD and find I sometimes need to 'up then back down' the channel to get a signal, I think it usually happens when switching between DVB-S and DVB-T channels, other than that I get all the HD channels flawlessly and its a great picture too. I got a PCI not pci-e card, so no converters needed, it was £50 on Amazon a few years ago. I believe this linked card is the same or a slightly updated version and it has 4.5 stars on Amazon, so you might want to give it a try? TBS DVB-S2 High Definition Digital Satellite Tuner PCI Card HD (DVB-S2/DVB-S) Receiver - PCI by Kubik Digital Electronics www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002GIPK6I/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_zejitb130VWCNI do have a region 2 dish but don't think that makes any difference. At least Amazon are Usually pretty good with returns if it doesn't work, but I don't see why it shouldn't. Hope this helps |
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Post by wheeker on May 26, 2014 10:01:11 GMT
Well I (foolishly) took the plunge again & tried to re-install the TBS 6981. It had belatedly occurred to me that I didn't fully remember uninstalling the PCTV 4000i (& Drivers) before I installed the TBS 6981. Ah-ha, maybe the old PCTV drivers had messed up the the TBS installation? So I tried again, this time ensuring I uninstalled the PCTV card & drivers. But no, once again the TBS card produced erratic results.  Ok, no problem, at least I took a full System Image & Back-up before the installation. So I thought I would be better re-installing the PCTV & just doing a System Restore back to my original configuration. But - no, now for the first time ever my PCTV & original Avermedia are proving erratic also. What have I done?! So just wondering what options should I follow: - Check the PCI Riser card & PCI cards are all seated properly (suppose I had better check).
- MCERecoveryTask (didn't work for me last time)
- Hack7mc method to clear the Guide & Tuner Set Up
- Turn WMC off & on again.
- Full System Image Restore (is this the "nuclear option"?)
Wish I had just left well alone..... |
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Post by IT Troll on May 26, 2014 12:42:13 GMT
I am really surprised that the TBS 6981 is not working for you, as you have probably seen from my other thread, I have now had success with the TBS 6285. It does sound like your card needs more power than is supplied through the PCI bus but this additional should be supplied through the extra power connector. Were you getting "no signal" errors again? From what I have read the 6981 requires a fair amount of manual configuration before it will work correctly. I am not a satellite user and so this is all new to me but seems to be a common issue: www.tbsdtv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1431www.tbsdtv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1956www.tbsdtv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3828My sequence for switching tuners is: - Uninstall device driver
- Shut down Windows
- Remove old card and fit new card
- Power up Windows
- Install driver
- Clear the guide and tuner data using the hack4mc method
- Run through Setup TV wizard in Media Center
If you have re-fitted the original cards (in their original slots) the cleanest way would be to restore your full system image. This puts everything back so that as far as Windows and Media Center is concerned it never happened. If you have tried to use system restore points they do not capture everything. They work well for hardware drivers and Windows Updates but I am not sure they include your Media Center configuration. |
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Post by wheeker on May 27, 2014 10:44:00 GMT
Thanks for your reply IT Troll, it seems I might have been a bit hasty in my doom & gloom. I shut-down my VGX the other night & when I re-started it - hey presto, all seemed well again with my TV Tuners (Avermedia & PCTV)!  Will keep an eye on it though..... As you say, you have used the same PCI->PCI-e convertor card with no issues, so it is strange I cannot get it to work. The only difference is you have been installing DVB-T2 cards rather than DVB-S2. I still think my issue is something to do with fragments of the PCTV driver clashing with the TBS driver. I know there is software you can use to clean out old drivers, but from memory, I think this could only be used with GPU drivers?  Anyhow, I think I am just too cautious now to try again. What I might do though is try fitting the TBS card to another HTPC I have (currently has a Blackgold BGT3540 DVB-S + Dual DVB-T). Then at least I can see if the card is working. On that point, I was curious- if it works in my other HTPC, which is networked, could I use DVB-Logic to incorporate the TBS card into my VGX TV guide? Or more simply, I could record BBC HD shows on my other HTPC & then play them on my VGX.... Hmmmmmm.... The other thought I had, which is probably a v.long shot, is that my LG TV has a DVB-S2 tuner on-board & a USB port to record on. What would happen if I connected the USB from my TV to the USB on my VGX. It is already networked via ethernet, but I can't see anything on my VGX. Would I be able to access the DVB-S2 tuner (unlikely, I know)? I could of course just use my TV to record BBC HD shows onto a hard-drive, but this isn't really the "all-in-one" solution I am striving for...... |
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Post by IT Troll on May 27, 2014 11:41:29 GMT
Anyhow, I think I am just too cautious now to try again. What I might do though is try fitting the TBS card to another HTPC I have (currently has a Blackgold BGT3540 DVB-S + Dual DVB-T). Then at least I can see if the card is working. On that point, I was curious- if it works in my other HTPC, which is networked, could I use DVB-Logic to incorporate the TBS card into my VGX TV guide? Or more simply, I could record BBC HD shows on my other HTPC & then play them on my VGX.... Hmmmmmm.... The other thought I had, which is probably a v.long shot, is that my LG TV has a DVB-S2 tuner on-board & a USB port to record on. What would happen if I connected the USB from my TV to the USB on my VGX. It is already networked via ethernet, but I can't see anything on my VGX. Would I be able to access the DVB-S2 tuner (unlikely, I know)? I could of course just use my TV to record BBC HD shows onto a hard-drive, but this isn't really the "all-in-one" solution I am striving for...... Glad to hear you are up and running again. Trying the card out on another system sounds like a good plan. Especially so if you are able to test it in both native PCIe and PCI adapter configurations. Both of your network tuner options should work. I believe this is exactly the scenario which DVBLink was designed for. I haven't used it myself but I know many others have. This option would fully integrate the remote tuner into your VGX. Alternatively if you didn't use DVBLink you could just record on your second HTPC, share the folder and then add this folder to your TV Library on your VGX. This will work because Freeview doesn't have any DRM so the recordings are playable on any PC. In this scenario you would have to schedule your recordings separately though. I don't think your USB idea will work if you connect your TV to a PC. I would imagine the TV will only recognise storage devices as valid recording media. The only possibility would be if you could find a storage device which support multiple connections; e.g. connection by both USB and network at the same time. |
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Post by Woody on May 27, 2014 19:39:10 GMT
I don't think your USB idea will work if you connect your TV to a PC. I would imagine the TV will only recognise storage devices as valid recording media. The only possibility would be if you could find a storage device which support multiple connections; e.g. connection by both USB and network at the same time. As I understand it this is correct, the TV only recognises 'valid' recording media.. ..even the latest TV's, whilst I suspect recording using a standard video format, often have a proprietary file systems meaning they also only recognise media that has been formatted and set up on that particular TV type. |
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Post by wheeker on Mar 7, 2015 14:21:40 GMT
Just to update: I think (hope) I have finally managed to get a Dual DVB-S2 setup working, I will post in my other thread "DVB-S2 issues" my conclusions. As regards this thread I can only report that I could not get my TBS 6981 to work with a PCI->PCI-e adapter. As IT Troll reports his Dual DVB-T2 card works with this method so I can only presume it won't work with dual DVB-S2. As Oliver points out in the other thread maybe there is a good reason you can't buy dual DVB-S2 PCI cards! I installed the TBS 6981 in another HTPC with a spare PCI-e slot & it works perfectly. Going back to the original title "spare power connections", ironically after all of the above carry-on, last night I discovered what appears to be a spare power connector, unless I have unwittingly disconnected something! I found this coming from the PSU: Is it a spare power connector?! Ironically I don't need one now! Attachments:
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Post by IT Troll on Mar 7, 2015 17:14:03 GMT
It is odd that you couldn't get your card to work. I did have a BlackGold dual DVB-T2 but I now have a TBS 6285 which is a quad DVB-T2 tuner running through the PCI1PEX1 adapter. So same manufacturer as your DVB-S2 tuner and I guess requires more power than a dual card.
The P3 connector is an optional 12V supply for some CPUs. I guess it just came as standard with the PSU. I don't think it is much use for anything else.
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Will keep an eye on it though.....
